Iraqi leaders intent on drafting constitution, Zoellick says
Iraq-USA, Politics, 4/15/2005

US Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick says the leaders of the Iraqi transitional government are committed to advancing the political process to meet the August 15 deadline for drafting a new constitution.

Zoellick gave his assessments of the Iraqi leadership in a press conference and in interviews with NBC News and Al Arabiya television in Baghdad April 13.Ê

Zoellick said he was encouraged by his talks with President Jalal Talibani, Prime Minister-designate Ibrahim Jaafari, outgoing Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and Parliamentary Speaker Hajim al-Hassani, who said that the challenges of meeting the August 15 deadline must be overcome so that the overall political process can stay on schedule.

"I had a sense that all of them believe they wanted to keep the momentum that they have from this election process so that they can then, after they have the constitution, have another vote on a referendum by all the Iraqi people on the constitution, and then have another set of elections later this year, which will help draw in some of the people who were not able to participate in the first round of elections," Zoellick told Al Arabiya.

The deputy secretary said he was encouraged by a report from President Talibani that Sunni groups who had opposed the political process in the past are showing interest in participating.

Once the Iraqis have chosen the members of the Cabinet, the United States will want to engage the new ministers on issues related to electricity, the legal system, jobs and agriculture, Zoellick said.

"[W]e will want to engage with them about some of the ideas we have about advancing those agendas, and that that would be a good foundation for then working with the Europeans and others to build some additional support for the country in economic terms, but also in political terms," he said in his press conference.

Zoellick said that Iraqi forces appear to be playing a growing role in assuring the country's security and the Iraqi people seem to be developing a sense that they are in charge of their own destiny.

"[T]hese are people that are not waiting and sitting back.Ê They've got challenges.Ê They're going to have internal politics, as any democracy does, and here it's a new one.Ê But, frankly, I think they're doing pretty well," Zoellick said.

The deputy secretary said the reconstruction of the Sunni city of Fallujah is advancing, and people are receiving checks to compensate them at least partially for damage that resulted when coalition forces rooted out insurgents there in 2004.

He said that coalition forces are taking precautions to protect civilians as they press the fight against terrorists.

Following are the transcripts of Zoellick's press conference and his interviews with Al Arabiya and NBC News: Baghdad, Iraq
April 13, 2005:

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê (In progress)...well, look, I haven't really (inaudible) through my mind, but I kind of divide the day into two parts.Ê And let me actually start with the second part because, you know, this is my first time to come to Iraq and so it was interesting.Ê I looked at this all in the process of the political transition, so we could just start with Allawi, who (inaudible) with a lot of respect and he's accomplished a great deal.

I gave you a sense of -- with all the parties that I talked to, I tried to gain a sense of where they stand in the political process.Ê I started to talk a little bit about some of these economic items that I discussed with you, and then also talked about the security side.Ê And I'll come back to some of the particulars.

I had a really good conversation with the Speaker, Hassani.Ê And there my main focus, given his post, was to get his sense of how he planned to try to move forward the constitutional process since that doesn't even really have to wait for the setting up of the government.Ê I got a sense also from this conversation -- he had had dinner with Dr. Allawi the prior night -- is that they're setting the priority to try to move the constitutional process forward.Ê I encouraged that because when you have a new Assembly, you can have many demands on you; I think it's important to have, you know, some major topics you want to put on your agenda.Ê He really said his major goals were the constitutional process, and another good one, making sure that the electoral system was set up and running effectively for the elections that would presumably take place by the end of the year.

He also made a very interesting comment in that, you know, I was discussing with people the inclusiveness of the process, about bringing in the Sunnis, and he emphasized that it was important to see this as an Iraqi process, not as a process just of Sunnis or Shiites or Kurds, and that in fact he could see a benefit that groups would have diverse views as they turn to these issues.

Then I had a long conversation with the Prime Minister-designate, Jaafari, and there we covered the political process, the economics, the security.Ê On the economics, I think that was a particularly useful element to start to bring into play because we're finding most of the discussions they've been used to having, conversations about the constitution and the political formation -- obviously they talk about the training of the troops and the security issues -- but this gave me the chance to, at least, start to outline some of the topics that I mentioned to all of you on the plane -- electricity issues, legal system issues, jobs and agriculture -- because what I wanted to suggest to him was that when his new cabinet is formed, we will want to engage with them about some of the ideas we have about advancing those agendas, and that that would be a good foundation for then working with the Europeans and others to build some additional support for the country in economic terms, but also in political terms.Ê He seized on that, and he was, I think, very engaged in that topic.

When you're having a conversation like that, you can't get into great depth but, for example, on electricity I talked about the different pricing of the fuel and the electricity systems and some of the other elements that would go into a more effective system, including getting the ministries of oil and electricity to work together on those topics.Ê So I was trying to plant the seeds, which is -what I try to do on some of these trips, through the contacts, is plant the seeds for developing the policy further.

And then I met President Talibani, who I can see will be a strong and influential leader in the process.Ê That was very interesting because among a number of topics, he emphasized how he'd had a group of Sunni leaders come visit him just yesterday, and he actually described them as, sort of, extremists in the system who wanted to come back into the political process.Ê So we talked a little bit about that.

My overall sense from this was the political process is moving forward, there is a commitment to the constitutional process.Ê Indeed, with the current Deputy Prime Minister, who is a Kurd, who was at the Talibani meeting, he reminded me that to delay the August 15 deadline would require a three-quarters vote in the Assembly, so he said there would be a lot of pressure to try to get this done on the August 15 process.

And, you know, I had a sense, again, of political leaders engaging about serious issues while representing slightly different groups and different perspectives, but of a process moving forward.Ê That's certainly what I encouraged.

And on the security side, I think, this is one where there's a sense that attacks are down, at least in overall sort of scope.Ê People are pleased that the Iraqi security forces seem to be playing a larger role.Ê They know that that sort of training and development needs to continue.Ê And frankly, all of them were very thankful and appreciative of the U.S. presence and they asked me to relay that.Ê In fact, the Prime Minister-designate drew attention to something that I saw but I didn't really focus on, which is, he told a story of when he flew in a U.S. helicopter that kids were waving.Ê And he said, they didn't know that an Iraqi was in that helicopter, and we probably saw the same thing when we were driving and in the helicopter, kids were waving.Ê Frankly, I didn't know whether to expect that; we've been here for a couple of years and people either would have gotten used to it or they'd be more sullen about it.Ê So I found that useful.

My sense from Fallujah, as I might have mentioned this to a couple of you -- I apologize, I forget -- was that, it was a little hard as we switched translators there, but --

QUESTION:Ê (Inaudible) very good?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê I thought the first one, the engineer I thought was pretty good but -- I don't -- you speak Arabic and -- but my sense was that, in a session like that, I'm often looking for some -- a general sense, not necessarily for the particular details.Ê And the general sense that I got was that this city council was created earlier this month and these individuals were from diverse backgrounds -- one was former Army, we had these two tribal leaders there, you had some people from the engineering side -- and they were engaged in the political process of making life better for Fallujah.

Now, there certainly are challenges ahead.Ê I also was very much struck by the police Major General, who obviously was very moved by the relationship.Ê He'd dealt with the prior set of Marine Expeditionary Force unit that was there.Ê And at least from talking to General Johnson, who's the current Major General -- you know, you've got to hand it to the Marines.Ê I mean, at least his predecessors managed to undertake a very dangerous operation, but then they turned to developing good relations with the community.

I also -- I talked to someone who had been to Fallujah quite recently, and said every time that he comes through again, you could kind of see additional stores opening -- Bill Taylor, who runs the economic team here -- and you got a sense of life coming back.Ê So you also, when you travel the country -- I don't know if you guys have been here before -- you look at the rubble and you look at the devastation, you know there's a long way to go.Ê And when you're putting on vests for security, you know that there's still danger out there.Ê They may not be frequent incidents and they may not be large, but nevertheless they can certainly take lives and put people at risk.

And so, you know, the other aspect, frankly, of my visit here was to have a chance to talk to the military team and the civilian team.Ê I'm going to be thanking our Embassy crew because, you know, a lot of people are going through some pretty difficult sacrifices, away from families, and I admire and respect what they're doing.

QUESTION:Ê Time for a couple of questions and then we'll leave.

QUESTION:Ê Did -- were you surprised by the, sort of, level of complaint and completely (inaudible) requests from them, from the Iraqis?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê No, but look, I've been in government for a long time.Ê I remember when I was at U.S. Trade Representative, I would regularly meet groups that would want this, that and the other thing.Ê When I used to do affordable housing around the country, I would deal with a lot of local governments and, you know, to me that was a sign that democracy was at work.Ê (Laughter.)

I got a sense that their overall spirit was that they're trying to make something.Ê I mean, when the guy was basically giving us the details of the sewer pipe and telling us the size and the inches of the sewer pipe, I mean -- I do a lot, I don't know about sewer pipe, but who knows?

QUESTION:Ê Sewer requirement.

QUESTION:Ê (inaudible) you over to the Mayor of Fallujah?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê We should relay that to Secretary Rice.Ê Maybe she'll let me do it.

But what it said to me was that these guys were into it, you know, about what had to be done.

QUESTION:Ê I want to ask about the amnesty issue.Ê You said Mr. Talibani yesterday met with Sunni extremists trying to come into the system (inaudible) the amnesty that you proposed.Ê What is the American position on that?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê Well, we didn't talk about it because there had been some prior conversations.Ê I think Doug Feith was here, he talked with Talibani two days ago, and then even when Secretary Rumsfeld was here.Ê The question didn't really have to come up because the position that Talibani had repeated to them was that, you know, no distinction in treatment between Americans and Iraqis and no relief for people that have blood on their hands.Ê In my conversation with Talibani, it was -- he was -- he didn't say anything of that nature and it was much more of, you know, if people have committed petty crimes, he said people who committed serious crimes -- and he's struggling for a formula to try to, sort of, draw people into the larger democratic community here.Ê And I think that the specification of our interests about not doing anything that would create any added danger for our forces, frankly, was already undertaken before I got here.

QUESTION:Ê One more, on the hostage video at Al-Jazeera.Ê Is there -- what the --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê All I know is that I was just told that it was, you know, that it was shown before here and obviously, you know, we want to try -- to call for the release of the individual.Ê In situations like this we're in touch with the family, but we try to deal with privacy.Ê But we're sort ofÊ -- actively involved trying to get the person back.Ê I neither know more about it nor if I did would I be able to say anything about it.

QUESTION:Ê All right.Ê Thank you.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê Okay, great.

.................

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
April 14, 2005

INTERVIEW

Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick
With Sawad Kazum of Al Arabiya

April 13, 2005
Baghdad, Iraq

MR. KAZUM:Ê Mr. Zoellick, first of all, welcome in Baghdad.Ê The Al Arabiya Channel welcomes you in Baghdad.Ê We learned that you are following the Iraqi situation closely, especially the discussions between the political Iraqi parties for the formation of a new Iraqi Government.Ê As you know that the elections, the last election, led to a winning of a Shia bloc in the parliament.Ê How do you look at that?Ê Does this contradict the American policies in Iraq and in the region?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê Well, our policy was to try to support democracy so we were absolutely delighted that 8 or 9 million Iraqis turned out under difficult, and even threatening, conditions to vote.Ê And we were very pleased to see that the Presidency Council is now formed, that there's a Prime Minister-designate, who I had a chance to meet, and that he seems to be moving to put together his ministries and that they will, of course, involve a number of parties -- the Kurdish party, his own Shia bloc, but also there's discussions about Prime Minister Allawi's vote bloc also being part of that.Ê And so that's the democratic process which we've encouraged, so we're pleased to see that it's moving ahead.

MR. KAZUM:Ê As you know, the formation of the government was delayed and this was on the account of the period you allocated for the drafting of the constitution.Ê Yesterday Mr. Rumsfeld said that the constitution must be provided to the people (inaudible) time.Ê This is a very short period that could lead to a confusion of the draft constitution.Ê What are your comments on this?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê Well, this is a topic that I discussed with all the Iraqi officials -- Prime Minister Allawi, the President, Prime Minister-designate, the Speaker -- and I get a sense that all of them want to stick to the timeframe that Iraqis have set to try to get that constitution done by August 15.Ê They all expressed the belief they can work off the foundation of the TAL, the Transition Administrative Law, which gives them a point of commonality.

But everyone is aware it will be challenging to do so but I had a sense that all of them believe they wanted to keep the momentum that they have from this election process so that they can then, after they have the constitution, have another vote on a referendum by all the Iraqi people on the constitution, and then have another set of elections later this year, which will help draw in some of the people who were not able to participate in the first round of elections.

So, you know, constitutions -- the U.S. Constitution was drafted in less time than that and so right now the Iraqi people have a start through the TAL.

MR. KAZUM:Ê After the elections there was some forces, Iraqi forces, political parties emerged that called themselves the forces against the occupation.Ê You, as a -- from the Department of State, do you have -- are you willing to open a page of communication with these forces, especially in light of the fact that your forces are still subjected to attacks?Ê Today they were only -- there were four attacks in Baghdad only.Ê Are there any chances for opening dialogue with these forces that are against occupation, as it calls itself?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê Well, I don't know about the particular group that you mentioned, but I can say that when I discussed with President Talabani today he mentioned a meeting he had yesterday with some Sunni groups that he characterized as being more on the extreme end who wanted to start to engage in the political process.Ê And when I was in Fallujah, which is a Sunni city, and met with city council members and saw their engagement and talked to the Marine general about the outreach that he and the civil affairs team have had more broadly with the Sunni community, and as you undoubtedly know, some Sunni religious and academic leaders recently came out and talked, suggested that Sunnis should feel free about joining the police and the military.

So I think that process is happening and part of my message with my colleagues in the Iraqi Government was that they should encourage an inclusive process, that democracy should be for all Iraqis.Ê And this was a position that they, themselves, had and I think that they will try to follow in the drafting of the constitution and are interested in putting together this government.

MR. KAZUM:Ê In regards to the possibility of Dr. Allawi, as you know, he has a large number of seats in the parliament.Ê If he does not enter into the government -- it is known that you have called on Dr. Allawi -- will you still call on Dr. Allawi and his party and his list at the same level?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê Well, when the United States works with any democratic partner we deal with the elected people who are in power and those who are also in opposition.Ê It's my understanding that Dr. Allawi is at present negotiating to see whether he will be part of the governing coalition.Ê That is for him and his party to decide with the Prime Minister-designate and his team.Ê

So we have great respect for what Dr. Allawi has accomplished.Ê We admire his leadership.Ê We are pleased that he represents, I believe, 40 seats in the process.Ê But we're pleased with the other parties as well.Ê That's what democracy is all about.

MR. KAZUM:Ê Mr. Bremer has enacted a law that relieves American forces, that exempts American forces or the multinational forces from any legal questioning inside Iraqi courts.Ê This matter has inflicted a lot of damages to the Iraqi properties and Iraqi persons.Ê The worries are that the soldiers have legal to inquire of innocent people in several instance.Ê Would this law continue in valid after all this?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê What I just know is some of the specifics that I saw in Fallujah, where people who had their homes damaged or destroyed were starting to get checks for at least partial compensation for their properties.Ê And at least in the discussions that I had with some of our troops, I know people go to extraordinary care certainly not to hurt anyone that doesn't deserve to be hurt and also to try to take care of property.Ê When I was traveling with the Marine Major General Johnson, who is in command of the forces in that area, I'll tell you, there were some kids in the street and he told the driver to be very careful because there were kids playing.Ê And I might add the kids were waving to us, too.Ê

So, you know, I think this is a dangerous situation and we've got courageous young men and women that are working with courageous Iraqi forces to try to defeat terrorists that are threatening what people are trying to do here, but they're trying to do it as carefully as they can and they're trying to do so in a way that ultimately will protect Iraqi life.

MR. KAZUM:Ê Thank you, sir.Ê

...............

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
April 14, 2005

INTERVIEW

Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick
With Richard Engel of NBC News

April 13, 2005
Baghdad, Iraq

MR. ENGEL:Ê There's been a lot of military action but not a lot of political vision on the ground.Ê Sometimes it seems that the Sunnis are chronically disenfranchised and that there is no real plan to include them.Ê Is there a plan to include them?Ê Did you say you have to get the Sunnis involved in the mix?Ê Everyone so far has talked about it and paid lip service to this fact, but it doesn't really seem to be happening.Ê The speaker of the parliament is a Sunni but that's not a really important position and everyone understands.Ê Did you bring that message home that we've got to have real power-sharing?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê We talked about -- well, I wouldn't use the word power-sharing.Ê I talk about an inclusive government.Ê Now, remember, this is a democracy and so power-sharing is often when people are trying to allocate offices.

But it's interesting.Ê I raised that question with the Sunni speaker and I got a very interesting response.Ê His point was we really need to get beyond looking at particular religious communities.Ê We've got people who may be from a Sunni background but they may be secular, and he was actually looking to try to build a process where you draw all the Iraqis together.

Now, having said that, with some of the other players, the ones who are Shia, the Prime Minister-designate or the Kurdish President, I think there was appreciation of the need to try to reach out in the process.Ê And indeed, President Talabani told me about a Sunni delegation that had just come to see him of people that he thought were rather hardline against the government and now they're trying to come back into the fold.

So I don't mean to underestimate the difficulty and challenge of this.Ê I mean, when you visit this country, you know, you see the destruction, you see some of the legacy of the past of Saddam Hussein.Ê You've lived here.Ê You know how hard this is and will be.

But I get a sense that things are moving in the right direction and I get a sense that this is going to be a very important year and I get a sense that the Iraqis -- and this may be the most important thing -- from the town council in Fallujah to the President of the country, the Iraqis are getting a sense that they are in charge of their own destiny.Ê They want the support of the American people.Ê They want the support of the American troops.Ê I had kids waving when we went over with the helicopter and when we drove through in various vehicles, but at the same time you've got body armor.Ê So you've got sort of that division that you have to sort of account for.

But the message that I got that I think was the most important one, these are people that are not waiting and sitting back.Ê They've got challenges.Ê They're going to have internal politics, as any democracy does, and here it's a new one.Ê But, frankly, I think they're doing pretty well.

MR. ENGEL:Ê We've seen two high-level visits, one from the Defense Department, the other from the State Department, two days in a row.Ê Why?Ê Why now?Ê What's the purpose?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê Well, I learned not to speak for cabinet secretaries since I used to be one, but in my case Secretary Rice thought it was very useful in this transition process for me to try to come out here early.Ê I was just at a conference in Oslo related to Sudan and I'm going out to Sudan and, frankly, it worked out well, given the fact that we thought that the government would be in formation and we now do have the Presidency, Council and the Prime Minister-designate.Ê But, you know, I hope in a matter of days or weeks that they will put together the cabinet and so there will be follow-up, and so I used the opportunity to talk with the Prime Minister-designate about some of the things that we hope to have on the economic agenda but also talk about the political formation because, again, you asked about the message.Ê I was hoping that they would be of a mind to keep the momentum going, and they certainly are.Ê That doesn't mean that this will be easy or automatic, but I didn't find a great conflict of views of where we hope the process will head and where they want it to head.

MR. ENGEL:Ê Any concerns that it's taking so long, that the momentum that they gained during the elections is somewhat flagging?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê You know, it's interesting.Ê When I traveled in Europe last week, you know, this is a question that I got asked.Ê And I tested with my Iraqi counterpart's a sense of the answer that I gave, which was to say, you know, sometimes when you have delays it's because people are talking past each other, but sometimes it's because they're doing hard political work.Ê And in this case, for example, some of the Kurdish parties recognized that the step of the Presidency Council required a two-thirds vote so they were doing some hard bargaining on things further down in the process at that stage.Ê At the same time, they recognized it was important to come together as they did.

So I don't think the time was poorly spent and I don't think the time will be poorly spent if it takes, you know, a little bit longer in terms of trying to put together a cabinet of 30-some people reflecting balance and competency.Ê But I do think there is a sense that we shouldn't slow down, and that was certainly a message that I conveyed but I had a strong sense the Iraqis recognize that themselves.

MR. ENGEL:Ê All right.Ê And finally, if you -- I was just asked, given a question, if I could ask.Ê As Israel fears the U.S. is going along with the European plan to tolerate a nuclear Iran, would the U.S. be willing to tolerate a nuclear Iran?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK:Ê Well, our position on Iran is clear and I don't know about a European plan.Ê I mean, we've been working with the Europeans to make sure that the Iranians do not develop any nuclear capabilities and don't have the uranium or the plutonium reprocessing capabilities, and that was what Secretary Rice worked out with the three key European countries -- Britain, France and Germany -- that are leading the effort on this.

So that is our policy and that's been the approach that we've been taking with the Europeans.Ê But again, on that issue and others, there will be tough steps ahead.Ê I don't expect the Iranians to cede easily on this, but I do feel we're better off being more closely aligned now with our European partners for that end.

Previous Stories:
  The Guardian: Iraqi anger over US occupation   (4/14/2005)
  Continued visits of American officials to Iraq   (4/14/2005)
  Bush compares toppling Saddam Hussein to the fall of the Berlin wall   (4/13/2005)

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